Downgrade UE Smart Radio to Squeeze OS

[frussqueeze]

I am a happy owner of a Transporter and SB Touch with library running in
my ReadyNAS Ultra.

I recently purchased a new UE Smart Radio and found out that I can not
access my current music library.
Plus I believe it needs internet connection all the time.

My purpose was to get my friend's idle SBT, use it as a media server
with 32gb SDCard and use this along with this UE Radio on a boat. (as
you might know, smaller is better for boats....not really much space)
You can only get 3G connection on a boat which is not cheap at all so
accessing local media is critical.

Is there any way of downgrading this to our familiar Squeezebox
firmware?
Or is there any method of showing current music library in UE Radio
using the above setup?

I can do technical things and I hope I can get this done.


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[erland]

frussqueeze wrote:
>
> Is there any way of downgrading this to our familiar Squeezebox
> firmware?
>
No
Or at least nobody has dared to try the manual method described here:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96256-Upgrade-SB-Radio-to-UE-Radio&p=725564&viewfull=1#post725564

The issue is that the hardware is a little different in the UE Smart
Radio, so loading Squeezebox firmware on it might work, but if it
doesn't work you risk turning the device into a brick where it won't
start anymore and you can basically not use it. So only try this if it
doesn't matter if your UE Smart Radio completely breaks.

frussqueeze wrote:
>
> Or is there any method of showing current music library in UE Radio
> using the above setup?
>
You can use it with a music library on a computer, but you won't be able
to use it with a music library on a USB drive/SD card inserted into the
Squeezebox Touch.
Unfortuantely there aren't even any official distribution from Logitech
of UE Music Library server for NAS boxes, so you basically need a
Windows or Mac computer to get an officially supported version. However,
UE Music Library works on Linux if you install it from git (from the
public/10.0 branch:
https://github.com/Logitech/slimserver/tree/public/10.0), but to do this
you need to know a bit of Linux and git.


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[frussqueeze]

erland wrote:
> No
> Or at least nobody has dared to try the manual method described here:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96256-Upgrade-SB-Radio-to-UE-Radio&p=725564&viewfull=1#post725564
>
> The issue is that the hardware is a little different in the UE Smart
> Radio, so loading Squeezebox firmware on it might work, but if it
> doesn't work you risk turning the device into a brick where it won't
> start anymore and you can basically not use it. So only try this if it
> doesn't matter if your UE Smart Radio completely breaks.
>
>
> You can use it with a music library on a computer, but you won't be able
> to use it with a music library on a USB drive/SD card inserted into the
> Squeezebox Touch.
> Unfortuantely there aren't even any official distribution from Logitech
> of UE Music Library server for NAS boxes, so you basically need a
> Windows or Mac computer to get an officially supported version. However,
> UE Music Library works on Linux if you install it from git (from the
> public/10.0 branch:
> https://github.com/Logitech/slimserver/tree/public/10.0), but to do this
> you need to know a bit of Linux and git.

Thank you erland for very clear reply.

I doubt there are any substantial changes in the hardware. I would
definitely try it if I was in States where this UE Radio was originally
bought, but I'm in Europe and it will be a pain to send it back.
I guess I threw away 179$..... oh well, I'll be very careful whenever an
item says "Logitech" on it and avoid if possible, let it be a
mouse/webcam/anything...


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[didjean]

frussqueeze wrote:
> Thank you erland for very clear reply.
>
> I doubt there are any substantial changes in the hardware. I would
> definitely try it if I was in States where this UE Radio was originally
> bought, but I'm in Europe and it will be a pain to send it back.
> I guess I threw away 179$..... oh well, I'll be very careful whenever an
> item says "Logitech" on it and avoid if possible, let it be a
> mouse/webcam/anything...

If I where you, I would just try the downgrade. If it's broken, I would
call them (Logitech Streaming Audio helpdesk) and say that it doesn't
work. A couple of weeks ago, I had a problem with one of my Radio and
they just sent me a new one.


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[bpa]

If you were to try the "downgrade" and you are technical. It would be
interesting to know if the serial port still works and whether it can be
used to fix the Radio if the Radio becomes "bricked"


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[Mnyb]

didjean wrote:
> If I were you, I would just try the downgrade. If it's broken, I would
> call them (Logitech Streaming Audio helpdesk) and say that it doesn't
> work. A couple of weeks ago, I had a problem with one of my Radio and
> they just sent me a new one.

yea go ahead and just try ,return it on warranty if you brick it .

I do think the hold << and boot would bring back the UE fw if you fail ,
and besides how can they make the product user breakable ? Of course
they have to give you a new one on warranty if you cant restore it .
Suppose Logitech EMEA could handle the return .

Compare it to a computer with a bundled windows install even if you
fubar it completely you can always resurect it from some kind of restore
partition . it has to be that way ,so you you just cant make a product
consumer breakable by just sending some serial commands , I don't think
that would stick .

And what to loose the products is partially broken anyway by design (UE)


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[bpa]

Mnyb wrote:
> Of course they have to give you a new one on warranty if you cant
> restore it . Suppose Logitech EMEA could handle the return .

Do they ? Perhaps the T&C's of the UE Radio says warranty not valid if
loaded with non UE firmware or not from the designated ue website.


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[Mnyb]

bpa wrote:
> Do they ? Perhaps the T&C's of the UE Radio says warranty not valid if
> loaded with non UE firmware or not from the designated ue website.

It probably says so ,but can you really expect custommer to actuyally
undertand very complictated T&C what gives legally ?

But wonder if they actually check the return or just shredd them and
return for recycling ?


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[bpa]

Mnyb wrote:
> It probably says so ,but can you really expect customer to actually
> understand very complicated T&C what gives legally ?
>
> But wonder if they actually check the return or just shreds them and
> return for recycling ?

This is a bit off topic and speculation but IIRC router manufacturers
refused to fix/replace bricked routers after users tried to install non
standard firmware.


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[frussqueeze]

Today I had a lengthy conversation with Logitech customer support and
tech services.

Bad news. This new UE hardware is 'improved' and (they say) is
drastically different than previous one, they even gave the example of
flashing fridge software to television, so this case is closed for me.
They say the hardware is a 'stripped down' version, I've no idea what
that exactly means.
If I try to flash old firmware it would almost certainly 'brick' it they
claim. I don't know somebody who can return this should try that.
Returning this item from Europe to US will cost about 50$ in postage, so
it's not logical for me to try. If I was in US I would definitely try
it.

I look at it this way, I was "scammed" by Logitech and ended up throwing
away 179$+tax to garbage as this piece of hardware is useless in a boat
environment where there is no internet access.
There SHOULD HAVE BEEN a clear warning on the item stating the
incompatibility with previous line of devices. The look is the exactly
the same! only name is different, that is why I call I've been scammed.
No connection possible to SBT on the boat, plus my home server is on a
NAS and tech support said there is no NAS support neither.

BE VERY VERY CAREFUL on your next Logitech purchase, this clearly draw
the line for me, never again!.....


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[pssc]

frussqueeze wrote:
> Today I had a lengthy conversation with Logitech customer support and
> tech services.
>
> Bad news. This new UE hardware is 'improved' and (they say) is
> drastically different than previous one, they even gave the example of
> flashing fridge software to television, so this case is closed for me.
> They say the hardware is a 'stripped down' version, I've no idea what
> that exactly means.
> If I try to flash old firmware it would almost certainly 'brick' it they
> claim. I don't know somebody who can return this should try that.
> Returning this item from Europe to US will cost about 50$ in postage, so
> it's not logical for me to try. If I was in US I would definitely try
> it.
>
> I look at it this way, I was "scammed" by Logitech and ended up throwing
> away 179$+tax to garbage as this piece of hardware is useless in a boat
> environment where there is no internet access.
> There SHOULD HAVE BEEN a clear warning on the item stating the
> incompatibility with previous line of devices. The look is the exactly
> the same! only name is different, that is why I call I've been scammed.
> No connection possible to SBT on the boat, plus my home server is on a
> NAS and tech support said there is no NAS support neither.
>
> BE VERY VERY CAREFUL on your next Logitech purchase, this clearly draw
> the line for me, never again!.....

So are you going to ebay, hack or return? Logitech tech support have
little or no idea about what’s really going on the platform.

Phill.


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[erland]

pssc wrote:
>
> Is the UE Radio running the name kernel as the SB Radio?
>
Except for the date, the uname -a reports the same on my Squeezebox
running Squeezebox firmware and on the Squeezebox which have been
upgraded UE Smart Radio firmware.
Squeezebox Radio with Squeezebox firmware:

Code:
--------------------

Linux SqueezeboxRadio 2.6.26.8-rt16 #1 PREEMPT RT Mon Sep 12 21:59:07 MDT 2011 armv5tejl GNU/Linux

--------------------


Squeezebox Radio with UE Smart Radio firmware:

Code:
--------------------

Linux SqueezeboxRadio 2.6.26.8-rt16 #1 PREEMPT RT Tue Sep 25 12:42:18 PDT 2012 armv5tejl GNU/Linux

--------------------


If someone with real UE Smart Radio have enabled the Developer menu and
SSH access according to this, try logging in with ssh and see what uname
-a reports:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96256-Upgrade-SB-Radio-to-UE-Radio&p=715317&viewfull=1#post715317

I believe the firmware upgrade logic in UE Smart Radio firmware allows
Logitech to feed individual devices with different firmware, so it's
possible that the kernel in a real UE Smart Radio is different than the
one in an "upgraded" Squeezebox Radio.


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[frussqueeze]

erland wrote:
> Except for the date, the uname -a reports the same on my Squeezebox
> running Squeezebox firmware and on the Squeezebox which have been
> upgraded UE Smart Radio firmware.
> Squeezebox Radio with Squeezebox firmware:
> >
Code:
--------------------
> >
> Linux SqueezeboxRadio 2.6.26.8-rt16 #1 PREEMPT RT Mon Sep 12 21:59:07 MDT 2011 armv5tejl GNU/Linux
>
--------------------
> >
>
> Squeezebox Radio with UE Smart Radio firmware:
> >
Code:
--------------------
> >
> Linux SqueezeboxRadio 2.6.26.8-rt16 #1 PREEMPT RT Tue Sep 25 12:42:18 PDT 2012 armv5tejl GNU/Linux
>
--------------------
> >
>
> If someone with real UE Smart Radio have enabled the Developer menu
> and SSH access according to this, try logging in with ssh and see what
> uname -a reports:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96256-Upgrade-SB-Radio-to-UE-Radio&p=715317&viewfull=1#post715317
>
> I believe the firmware upgrade logic in UE Smart Radio firmware allows
> Logitech to feed individual devices with different firmware, so it's
> possible that the kernel in a real UE Smart Radio is different than
> the one in an "upgraded" Squeezebox Radio.

Erland, I did uname -a, here is the result:


Code:
--------------------

Linux SqueezeboxRadio 2.6.26.8-rt16 #1 PREEMPT RT Tue Sep 25 12:42:18 PDT 2012 armv5tejl GNU/Linux

--------------------


does that mean anything?


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[erland]

frussqueeze wrote:
> Erland, I did uname -a, here is the result:
>
> >
Code:
--------------------
> >
> Linux SqueezeboxRadio 2.6.26.8-rt16 #1 PREEMPT RT Tue Sep 25 12:42:18 PDT 2012 armv5tejl GNU/Linux
>
--------------------
> >
>
> does that mean anything?

Just to be sure, is this for an upgraded Squeezebox or for a UE Smart
Radio purchased in the store ?


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[frussqueeze]

erland wrote:
> Just to be sure, is this for an upgraded Squeezebox or for a UE Smart
> Radio purchased in the store ?

This is for a UE Smart Radio purchased in the store. Not upgraded. Real
retail UE Smart Radio.


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[erland]

frussqueeze wrote:
> This is for a UE Smart Radio purchased in the store. Not upgraded. Real
> retail UE Smart Radio.
>
Ok, that at least indicates that the kernel is the same both for UE
Smart Radio and for an upgraded Squeezebox Radio.

If I on my upgraded run
Code:
--------------------
cat /etc/squeezeos.version
--------------------

It reports
Code:
--------------------

10.0.1 r16963
root-WMMafQ+sPh1cSjwxcCtkw1SzLy+fSm/***@public.gmane.org Thu Nov 8 09:33:51 PST 2012
Base build revision: b4b03b7fc83610c2bcd43bd71a8461768cfd2519

--------------------


Is this also the same on yours ?
If that part also is exactly the same, it's indication that not just the
kernel but the whole lower level operating system is the same.

Some other things to compare are:

Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/bus/input/devices
--------------------

Which on mine gives:

Code:
--------------------

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
N: Name="mxckpd"
P: Phys=
S: Sysfs=/class/input/input0
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event0
B: EV=3
B: KEY=8000 38 4000 240 4001 f8000000 1

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
N: Name="front panel"
P: Phys=
S: Sysfs=/class/input/input1
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event1
B: EV=3
B: KEY=120400 0 0 0

I: Bus=0000 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
N: Name="msp430"
P: Phys=
S: Sysfs=/class/input/input2
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=event2
B: EV=35
B: REL=300
B: MSC=8
B: SW=2

--------------------


And
Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/modules
--------------------

Which gives:

Code:
--------------------

ar6000 142684 0 - Live 0xbf000000

--------------------


And
Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/devices
--------------------

Which gives:

Code:
--------------------

Character devices:
1 mem
4 /dev/vc/0
4 tty
5 /dev/tty
5 /dev/console
5 /dev/ptmx
7 vcs
10 misc
13 input
14 sound
29 fb
90 mtd
116 alsa
128 ptm
136 pts
207 ttymxc
252 imx_adc
253 ubi0
254 rtc

Block devices:
1 ramdisk
7 loop
31 mtdblock

--------------------


In the end, the more similarities there are, the bigger chance that a
manual downgrade might work.
But the first UE Smart Radio customer who tries to downgrade to
Squeezebox firmware is always going to take a risk as long as we can't a
confirmation from someone from Logitech.


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[frussqueeze]

erland wrote:
> Ok, that at least indicates that the kernel is the same both for UE
> Smart Radio and for an upgraded Squeezebox Radio.
>
> If I on my upgraded run >
Code:
--------------------
> > cat /etc/squeezeos.version
--------------------
> >
> It reports>
Code:
--------------------
> >
> 10.0.1 r16963
> root-WMMafQ+sPh1cSjwxcCtkw1SzLy+fSm/***@public.gmane.org Thu Nov 8 09:33:51 PST 2012
> Base build revision: b4b03b7fc83610c2bcd43bd71a8461768cfd2519
>
--------------------
> >
>
> Is this also the same on yours ?
> If that part also is exactly the same, it's indication that not just
> the kernel but the whole lower level operating system is the same.
>
> Some other things to compare are:
> >
Code:
--------------------
> > cat /proc/bus/input/devices
--------------------
> >
> Which on mine gives:
> >
Code:
--------------------
> >
> I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
> N: Name="mxckpd"
> P: Phys=
> S: Sysfs=/class/input/input0
> U: Uniq=
> H: Handlers=kbd event0
> B: EV=3
> B: KEY=8000 38 4000 240 4001 f8000000 1
>
> I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
> N: Name="front panel"
> P: Phys=
> S: Sysfs=/class/input/input1
> U: Uniq=
> H: Handlers=kbd event1
> B: EV=3
> B: KEY=120400 0 0 0
>
> I: Bus=0000 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
> N: Name="msp430"
> P: Phys=
> S: Sysfs=/class/input/input2
> U: Uniq=
> H: Handlers=event2
> B: EV=35
> B: REL=300
> B: MSC=8
> B: SW=2
>
--------------------
> >
>
> And >
Code:
--------------------
> > cat /proc/modules
--------------------
> >
> Which gives:
> >
Code:
--------------------
> >
> ar6000 142684 0 - Live 0xbf000000
>
--------------------
> >
>
> And >
Code:
--------------------
> > cat /proc/devices
--------------------
> >
> Which gives:
> >
Code:
--------------------
> >
> Character devices:
> 1 mem
> 4 /dev/vc/0
> 4 tty
> 5 /dev/tty
> 5 /dev/console
> 5 /dev/ptmx
> 7 vcs
> 10 misc
> 13 input
> 14 sound
> 29 fb
> 90 mtd
> 116 alsa
> 128 ptm
> 136 pts
> 207 ttymxc
> 252 imx_adc
> 253 ubi0
> 254 rtc
>
> Block devices:
> 1 ramdisk
> 7 loop
> 31 mtdblock
>
--------------------
> >
>
> In the end, the more similarities there are, the bigger chance that a
> manual downgrade might work.
> But the first UE Smart Radio customer who tries to downgrade to
> Squeezebox firmware is always going to take a risk as long as we can't
> a confirmation from someone from Logitech.




If on my UE Radio I run:

Code:
--------------------
cat /etc/squeezeos.version
--------------------

It gives

Code:
--------------------

10.0.1 r16963
root-WMMafQ+sPh1cSjwxcCtkw1SzLy+fSm/***@public.gmane.org Thu Nov 8 09:33:51 PST 2012
Base build revision: b4b03b7fc83610c2bcd43bd71a8461768cfd2519

--------------------


then


Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/bus/input/devices
--------------------

gives:

Code:
--------------------

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
N: Name="mxckpd"
P: Phys=
S: Sysfs=/class/input/input0
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event0
B: EV=3
B: KEY=8000 38 4000 240 4001 f8000000 1

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
N: Name="front panel"
P: Phys=
S: Sysfs=/class/input/input1
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event1
B: EV=3
B: KEY=120400 0 0 0

I: Bus=0000 Vendor=0000 Product=0000 Version=0000
N: Name="msp430"
P: Phys=
S: Sysfs=/class/input/input2
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=event2
B: EV=35
B: REL=300
B: MSC=8
B: SW=2

--------------------


then


Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/modules
--------------------

gives:

Code:
--------------------

ar6000 142684 0 - Live 0xbf000000

--------------------


then


Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/devices
--------------------

gives:

Code:
--------------------

Character devices:
1 mem
4 /dev/vc/0
4 tty
5 /dev/tty
5 /dev/console
5 /dev/ptmx
7 vcs
10 misc
13 input
14 sound
29 fb
90 mtd
116 alsa
128 ptm
136 pts
207 ttymxc
252 imx_adc
253 ubi0
254 rtc

Block devices:
1 ramdisk
7 loop
31 mtdblock

--------------------



I think they are all the same no??


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[Jonvw]

Using the instructions in the other thread, I was able to downgrade a UE
Smart Radio purchased in a store to a SB Radio. Easy peasy, no hiccups.


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[didjean]

Excellent!


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[Jonvw]

didjean wrote:
> Excellent!
> Which instructions have you followed ?

I used the steps outlined at
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96256-Upgrade-SB-Radio-to-UE-Radio&p=725564&viewfull=1#post725564
. I also had to uncomment a line in
/usr/share/jive/applets/SetupFirmwareUpgrade/SetupFirmwareUpgradeMeta.lua
to reveal the Update Software option in the Advanced settings menu.


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[ShutterShock]

Jonvw wrote:
> I used the steps outlined at
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96256-Upgrade-SB-Radio-to-UE-Radio&p=725564&viewfull=1#post725564
> . I also had to uncomment a line in
> /usr/share/jive/applets/SetupFirmwareUpgrade/SetupFirmwareUpgradeMeta.lua
> to reveal the Update Software option in the Advanced settings menu.jonvw, everything working well with your 'downgraded' UE Smart Radio?
Has anyone else tried this? I'm eager to do the downgrade but the coward
in me wants to learn from the brave ones who've gone before me.

Thanks.


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[Jonvw]

Everything is still working normally. I never had an off-the-shelf SB
radio, but everything behaves the way I would expect it to. It connects
to LMS 7.62 and MySB, which both see it as a Radio. As far as I can
tell, it is in every sense a SB Radio except for the logo on the front.


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[maggior]

Given that the Radio was the only squeezebox type I didn't own (well, I
don't have a transporter either ;-) and they were on Amazon in a fire
sale ($99!), I picked one up.

Of course it's giving me nothing but trouble out of the box :-(. It
plays fine through mysb.com, but it won't play from my local server. I
suspect this is because it won't downgrade the firware to my local
version.

It seems to have come with later firmware. I'm running 7.5.5 for my
server. I managed to connect it to mysb.com and upgrade it to the
firmware there. But, when I try to connect it to my local server, it
fails to update the firmware. It starts and immediately fails.

Is there a way to "manually" upgrade the firmware like could be done
with the controller? Can the process described here be used to do this?
Is this a common issue?

I have to say I'm impressed with the hardware itself - very solid
feeling. Once I can get it to play music, I can comment on the sound
quality :-).

Thanks!


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[Mnyb]

maggior wrote:
> Given that the Radio was the only squeezebox type I didn't own (well, I
> don't have a transporter either ;-) and they were on Amazon in a fire
> sale ($99!), I picked one up.
>
> Of course it's giving me nothing but trouble out of the box :-(. It
> plays fine through mysb.com, but it won't play from my local server. I
> suspect this is because it won't downgrade the firware to my local
> version.
>
> It seems to have come with later firmware. I'm running 7.5.5 for my
> server. I managed to connect it to mysb.com and upgrade it to the
> firmware there. But, when I try to connect it to my local server, it
> fails to update the firmware. It starts and immediately fails.
>
> Is there a way to "manually" upgrade the firmware like could be done
> with the controller? Can the process described here be used to do this?
> Is this a common issue?
>
> I have to say I'm impressed with the hardware itself - very solid
> feeling. Once I can get it to play music, I can comment on the sound
> quality :-).
>
> Thanks!

You could check the hardware revision as per earlier post in this tread
, there could possibly be a case of very late revisions of Radio not
being able to run to old fw ? ?


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[toby10]

Tried just dismissing the firmware update/downgrade on LMS? Left or
Home button?


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[maggior]

I've tried that, but it behaves strangely. The radio doesn't show up in
the list of players on the web page. it will let me browse my music
library and appears to play when I play something, but no sound comes
out of the speaker. Since there is a mismatch between the server and
player firmware, I figure I should resolve that before I conclude there
is some other problem.

It plays Rhapsody fine from mysb.com, so it all seems like a software
problem to me.


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[erland]

maggior wrote:
>
> It seems to have come with later firmware. I'm running 7.5.5 for my
> server. I managed to connect it to mysb.com and upgrade it to the
> firmware there. But, when I try to connect it to my local server, it
> fails to update the firmware. It starts and immediately fails.
>
As I've understood the UE Smart Radio is unlikely to work with any
Squeezebox firmware prior to 7.7, so I'm afraid you probably have to
upgrade your server to be able to use the downgraded UE Smart Radio with
local music.


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[maggior]

I don't have a UE smart radio, it's a squeezebox radio.

I may have confused people because this thread is indeed about
downgrading the UE smart radio.

The only reason I posted here was I wanted to know if the manual
firmware update procedure described here would be applicable to moving a
squeezebox radio to a different FW version.

I will be bummed if it turns out that the radio that I have is not
compatable with 7.5.5.

Tonight I will gather information on the hardware version. Perhaps it
is a case that even though it isn't a UE smart radio, it essentially is
due to the hardware revs.


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[erland]

maggior wrote:
> I don't have a UE smart radio, it's a squeezebox radio.
>
> I may have confused people because this thread is indeed about
> downgrading the UE smart radio.
>
> The only reason I posted here was I wanted to know if the manual
> firmware update procedure described here would be applicable to moving a
> squeezebox radio to a different FW version.
>
> I will be bummed if it turns out that the radio that I have is not
> compatable with 7.5.5.
>
> Tonight I will gather information on the hardware version. Perhaps it
> is a case that even though it isn't a UE smart radio, it essentially is
> due to the hardware revs.
>
If it's a Radio purchased this year it likely have the same issues as UE
Smart Radio.
If it's an older Radio it should work to just connect it to an older
Squeezebox Server version and if that doesn't work the manual downgrade
procedure should work.

Check the hardware revision by login via ssh and run: cat /proc/cpuinfo
The hardware revision is listed at the end, something like this:
Hardware : Logitech MX25 Baby Board
Revision : 0005

If Revision is 0007 the Radio will likely only work with 7.7 firmware,
but if it's 0005 or lower you should be able to downgrade it manually.
If manual downgrade directly to 7.5.5 doesn't work, you can try to do it
in steps, you will find the firmware files here:
http://update.mysqueezebox.com/update/firmware/


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[toby10]

Simple test, run LMS 7.7.2 on a different computer (i.e. not the
computer currently running your LMS 7.5), connect Radio to LMS 7.7.2,
see if it connects.
It won't update/downgrade cuz 7.7.2 is what your Radio currently has,
having been connected to MySB.com.


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[maggior]

erland wrote:
> If it's a Radio purchased this year it likely have the same issues as UE
> Smart Radio.
> If it's an older Radio it should work to just connect it to an older
> Squeezebox Server version and if that doesn't work the manual downgrade
> procedure should work.
>
> Check the hardware revision by login via ssh and run: cat /proc/cpuinfo
> The hardware revision is listed at the end, something like this:
> Hardware : Logitech MX25 Baby Board
> Revision : 0005
>
> If Revision is 0007 the Radio will likely only work with 7.7 firmware,
> but if it's 0005 or lower you should be able to downgrade it manually.
> If manual downgrade directly to 7.5.5 doesn't work, you can try to do it
> in steps, you will find the firmware files here:
> http://update.mysqueezebox.com/update/firmware/

Thanks erland.

You say "the Radio will likely only work...". Do we have confirmation
of this? It would be good to have a definitive answer on this to save
other needlessly thrashing about trying to get something that won't work
to work.

It's always an adventure :-).

Regarding tob10's suggestion - I do have a second system running lms as
an experiment for my 2 logitech revues (another fun adventure!). I'll
see what happens if I try to connect to it. By the time I thought to do
that last night, I had just had enough and gave up.


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[erland]

maggior wrote:
> Thanks erland.
>
> You say "the Radio will likely only work...". Do we have confirmation
> of this? It would be good to have a definitive answer on this to save
> other needlessly thrashing about trying to get something that won't work
> to work.
>
The only definitive answer I know is the stuff I posted in the following
post earlier in the thread (which refers to board revision 7):
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97331-Downgrade-UE-Smart-Radio-to-Squeeze-OS&p=727744&viewfull=1#post727744

Plus what pippin mentioned based on his experience of people purchasing
a Radio earlier this year who tried older firmware versions.

If hardware is changed, it's not that strange that older firmware
versions won't work.


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[maggior]

So my SB Radio is revision 0007 per a cat of /proc/cpuinfo.

...sigh...

Sorry, but I'm going to vent...

This absolutely ludicrous!! I don't care what actual hardware exists
inside the box, it is a squeezebox radio (says so right on the case!).
It's not a Radio Rev. 2, it's not a UE Smart Radio. It SHOULD support
whatever software was designed to support the Radio.

I find myself not feeling so bad about the demise of the squeezebox -
this is just absurd. Sorry to the developers still working on this
stuff - I'm sure it's not your fault, this smells of mismanagement.
Talk about fodder for Scott Adams in his Dilbert strip!

I will give LMS 7.7.2 (or whatever the latest is) a try. If I find
there are issues using ALL of my other squeezeboxes with it, my Radio
will quickly go back in it's box back to Amazon. It's just not worth
it!

Thankfully I didn't suggest my friend at work get a Radio - he got a
Grace digital radio instead. Now I don't feel bad that I didn't suggest
the Radio.

OK, vent done.

For those of you that may stumble on this thread, here's the deal. If
you have a new squeezebox radio and it will update to the FW on
mysb.com, but will not update to the version you run locally that is
older than 7.7.2, you will have no choice but to upgrade to 7.7.2 of
LMS. What you attempt the FW update to something < 7.7.2, it will
appear to start at 0%, and immediately fail. When it fails, the wifi
icon will briefly turn to red and back to white. No matter what you do,
it just won't update.

Confirm this by ssh'ing into your radio and cat'ing /proc/cpuinfo. If
you see revision 0007 at the end, you are definitely in this boat.

If you attempt to play music with the newer FW on the radio with your
<7.7.2 server, it will appear to play, but no sound will come out.
Navigating menus will be slow. You try to reconnect to mysb.com and it
will restart itself and upon reboot will send a crash report to
logitech. Now you connect to mysb.com and it works as it should.

Great stuff eh? You just can't make this stuff up.

It's like Logitech is holding up its middle finger at us as they close
the door to the squeezebox. Thanks a bunch guys, really appreciate it!

(guess the rant wasn't quite done yet ;-).


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[chill]

maggior wrote:
> So my SB Radio is revision 0007 per a cat of /proc/cpuinfo.
> This absolutely ludicrous!! I don't care what actual hardware exists
> inside the box, it is a squeezebox radio (says so right on the case!).
> It's not a Radio Rev. 2, it's not a UE Smart Radio. It SHOULD support
> whatever software was designed to support the Radio.
>

Maggior - I understand your frustration, but I don't think I share your
indignation. I don't believe that a manufacturer should necessarily
feel any obligation to make sure that all future hardware revisions
should remain compatible with all old versions of the software. It
doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone buying a new piece of
hardware should be required to run an up-to-date version of the
software.

Aside from this philosophical point, current versions of the server
software are pretty good in my experience. I was running 7.7.something
with no issues, and upgraded to a 7.8 beta, also with no issues.


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[maggior]

chill wrote:
> Maggior - I understand your frustration, but I don't think I share your
> indignation. I don't believe that a manufacturer should necessarily
> feel any obligation to make sure that all future hardware revisions
> should remain compatible with all old versions of the software. It
> doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone buying a new piece of
> hardware should be required to run an up-to-date version of the
> software.
>
> Aside from this philosophical point, current versions of the server
> software are pretty good in my experience. I was running 7.7.something
> with no issues, and upgraded to a 7.8 beta, also with no issues.

Any manufacturer that doesn't think it's necessary is sure to piss its
customer base off. With customer expectations the way they are today,
that's not such a great idea.

What if Apple changed the internals of their iPhone with no updates to
model names or model numbers. Let's say that these new iPhones would
only update and sync using the new iTunes 11 and give mysterious failure
messages when they failed to update and sync. And let's say that they
didn't put anything in their documentation to indicate this fact and
left it up to their loyal customers to discover this and figure it out
for themselves. You don't think that the customer base would become
indignant?


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[alfista]

maggior wrote:
> You don't think that the customer base would become indignant?
In the case of Apple? No. At least they wouldn't admit it.


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[erland]

chill wrote:
>
> Aside from this philosophical point, current versions of the server
> software are pretty good in my experience. I was running 7.7.something
> with no issues, and upgraded to a 7.8 beta, also with no issues.
>
My feeling is that 7.7.2 is the best release since 7.5.5, at least as
long as you disable image/video scanning.
7.7.2 have some advantages and some disadvantages compared to 7.5.5, so
it depends on how you use it if 7.5.5 or 7.7.2 works best.


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[maggior]

erland wrote:
> My feeling is that 7.7.2 is the best release since 7.5.5, at least as
> long as you disable image/video scanning.
> 7.7.2 have some advantages and some disadvantages compared to 7.5.5, so
> it depends on how you use it if 7.5.5 or 7.7.2 works best.

That's good to know and gives me some confidence in upgrading.

Thanks Erland!


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[garym]

maggior wrote:
> That's good to know and gives me some confidence in upgrading.
>
> Thanks Erland!

+1. I use 7.7.2 on two windows machines and also in two linux
(vortexbox) machines. No issues with my own music (70,000 flac files
takes about an hour to scan and an older library with 206,000 lossy
files takes a bit less than 4 hours to scan). Most have artwork. All
works smoothly and I also use various plugins (most of erlands stuff
related to dynamic playlists, etc.), scrobbling, various apps (mog,
sirriusXM, etc.). My setups run for months at a time without a reboot.
Only time i'm rebooting system is do do an update, etc. knock on wood,
rock solid for me.


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[simlu]

Hi Guys,

First of all I'd like to share with you my disappointment with the UE
Smart Radio. Shame on me I didn't read enough before buying. I was sure
this little music box would be better than it's predecessor but it's
quite the opposite. A lot of cool features have been removed and the one
I wanted the most with the UE Smart Radio wasn't there: playing music
locally using my Synology NAS.

I decided to downgrade the firmware to baby 7.7.2 (r9663), thanks to
some useful posts I found on this forum. So far, I've encountered no
issues at all. Here's the information of my UE:


Code:
--------------------

#cat /etc/squeezeos.version
10.0.1 r16963
root-WMMafQ+sPh1cSjwxcCtkw1SzLy+fSm/***@public.gmane.org Thu Nov 8 09:33:51 PST 2012
Base build revision: b4b03b7fc83610c2bcd43bd71a8461768cfd2519

#cat /proc/cpuinfo
Processor : ARM926EJ-S rev 4 (v5l)
BogoMIPS : 359.62
Features : swp half thumb fastmult edsp java
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 5TEJ
CPU variant : 0x0
CPU part : 0x926
CPU revision : 4
Cache type : write-back
Cache clean : cp15 c7 ops
Cache lockdown : format C
Cache format : Harvard
I size : 16384
I assoc : 4
I line length : 32
I sets : 128
D size : 16384
D assoc : 4
D line length : 32
D sets : 128

Hardware : Logitech MX25 Baby Board
Revision : 0007
Serial :
UUID :

--------------------


If it can be of any help for someone else, here's what I did:

1 - Start the UE Smart Radio
2 - Go into the Settings menu and press button Home and ffwd(>>). A new
Developers menu will appear at the bottom.
3 - Go into the Developers menu and enable remote access (SSH)
4 - Reboot the UE Smart Radio by holding down the power button and
pressing it again
5 - ssh on your smart radio (You can find the IP address somewhere in
the Settings menu) using root as the user and 1234 for the password
6 - You need to edit a lua script to add the FirmwareUpgrade option. Do
the following:

Code:
--------------------

#vi /usr/share/jive/applets/SetupFirmwareUpgrade/SetupFirmwareUpgradeMeta.lua

--------------------


Now find the following line

- -- jiveMain:addItem(meta:menuItem('appletSetupFirmwareUpgrade',
'advancedSettings',
"UPDATE", function(applet) applet:showFirmwareUpgradeMenu() end, 115))-

You need to uncomment this line by deleting the "--". Type :wq! (Save
and quit)

7 - Reboot the UE Smart Radio by holding down the power button and
pressing it again
8 - Download the 7.7.2 Revision 9663 firmware
http://update.mysqueezebox.com/update/firmware/7.8.0/baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin
9 - Copy the firmware on your Smart Radio in directory /dev (using scp
or any other software) since it's the only partition with enough disk
space
10 - Create a symlink using the following command so the smart radio
sees the new firmware:

Code:
--------------------

#cd /media
#ln -s /dev/baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin

--------------------

11 - Go in to Settings->AdvancedSettings->FirmwareUpgrade (something
like that) and do the upgrade
12 - When the squeezebox (!) has finished rebooting, you will be happy
and I strongly suggest that you do a factory reset (Go in Settings ->
Advanced -> Restore factory settings)


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[maggior]

simlu wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> First of all I'd like to share with you my disappointment with the UE
> Smart Radio. Shame on me I didn't read enough before buying. I was sure
> this little music box would be better than it's predecessor but it's
> quite the opposite. A lot of cool features have been removed and the one
> I wanted the most with the UE Smart Radio wasn't there: playing music
> locally using my Synology NAS.
>
> I decided to downgrade the firmware to baby 7.7.2 (r9663), thanks to
> some useful posts I found on this forum. So far, I've encountered no
> issues at all. Here's the information of my UE:
>

Thanks so much for posting these step by step details! Very well
written. If I find I have a hankering for another radio, this is
definitely an option!

An update regarding my situation - I've successfully upgraded my server
to 7.7.2 and thing are running swimmingly. I also update the OS in my
server and installed an SSD for the OS. Overall, it is much snappier,
which may be in large part due to the server upgrades. I'm happy with
how my system is running now and it's good to be running a current
version of the server. At least the last version of the server software
is robust.


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[Owen Smith]

maggior wrote:
> Thanks so much for posting these step by step details! Very well
> written. If I find I have a hankering for another radio, this is
> definitely an option!
>
> An update regarding my situation - I've successfully upgraded my server
> to 7.7.2 and thing are running swimmingly. I also update the OS in my
> server and installed an SSD for the OS. Overall, it is much snappier,
> which may be in large part due to the server upgrades. I'm happy with
> how my system is running now and it's good to be running a current
> version of the server. At least the last version of the server software
> is robust.

Given how poor some server versions have been, it is indeed fortunate
that the final versions either 7.7.2 or the slightly later betas are
reliable and fast. I haven't even got image/video scanning turned off,
I've got images and videos and I use the 7.7.2 upnp plugin to serve
videos over DLNA to my Oppo blu ray player. I wasn't even aware of any
supposed problem until I saw this thread. I use a WHS V1 server.

So the question now is whether I want a Radio. Need to think about that,
I already have a Boom that I never used. I keep meaning to listen in the
garden but the summer weather in the UK has been so poor for the lasy
few years.


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[rjbathgate]

simlu wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> First of all I'd like to share with you my disappointment with the UE
> Smart Radio. Shame on me I didn't read enough before buying. I was sure
> this little music box would be better than it's predecessor but it's
> quite the opposite. A lot of cool features have been removed and the one
> I wanted the most with the UE Smart Radio wasn't there: playing music
> locally using my Synology NAS.
>
> I decided to downgrade the firmware to baby 7.7.2 (r9663), thanks to
> some useful posts I found on this forum. So far, I've encountered no
> issues at all. Here's the information of my UE:
>

You are a true legend, just done this on my retail UE Smart Radio and
now I have a Squeezebox Radio and can get it to work how I want.

Thank you.


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[tj3818]

I'm sorry that I am no tech wizz, but I can't figure out how to A, edit
the file in the command #vi
/usr/share/jive/applets/SetupFirmwareUpgrade/SetupFirmwareUpgradeMeta.lua.
I;m using putty and whenever I copy that code in, nothing comes up. I
also can't figure out how to upload files to my Squeezebox. Please
Help!!


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[tj3818]

All the other steps work, but when I try to create a simlink using
putty, it looks like it works, but the radio doesn't recognize the link.
Please Help!


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[dkfackler]

I'm afraid this is my first foray into Unix command lines.

I have been successful in every step except for copying the 7.7.2
firmware into my UE Smartradio.

I've tried

#scp /Users/"username"/Desktop/baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin
root@"radioIPaddress": /dev

What am I missing?


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[aubuti]

dkfackler wrote:
> I've tried (on a Mac)
>
> #scp /Users/"username"/Desktop/baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin
> root@"radioIPaddress": /dev
>
> What am I missing?
>
> What changes should I see in the /dev directory after the file copy?
I'm not sure what instructions you are following -- could you provide a
link?

Just on the face of it, I see three things that are likely to be
problems:
1) you need a real, existing directory in place of "username" (i.e., the
directory where the firmware is located)
2) you need the correct IP address of your Radio in place of
"radioIPaddress"
3) you shouldn't have a space between the colon and /dev

After doing the file copy, the change you should see is the file
baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin in the /dev directory on the Radio.


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[dkfackler]

aubuti wrote:
> I'm not sure what instructions you are following -- could you provide a
> link?
>
> Just on the face of it, I see three things that are likely to be
> problems:
> 1) you need a real, existing directory in place of "username" (i.e., the
> directory where the firmware is located)
> 2) you need the correct IP address of your Radio in place of
> "radioIPaddress"
> 3) you shouldn't have a space between the colon and /dev
>
> After doing the file copy, the change you should see is the file
> baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin in the /dev directory on the Radio.

OK, I thought the copied file should be visible in the /dev directory.

As for instructions-- post #68 on this page:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97331-Downgrade-UE-Smart-Radio-to-Squeeze-OS/page7



1) I DO have a real directory name in place of username-- that's just a
generic placeholder used in _this_ post.

2) Ditto above for "radioIPaddress"

3) Ah, the space. Will try after space excision.

Thanks,

DK


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[aubuti]

dkfackler wrote:
> 3) Ah, the space. Will try after space excision.
That should be it. Let us know if it isn't!


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[dkfackler]

aubuti wrote:
> That should be it. Let us know if it isn't!

So:

scp /Users/danny/Desktop/baby_7.7.2_r9663.bin root-***@public.gmane.org:/dev

Is that it?

The baby_7.7.2 file is indeed on my desktop and the file should be
copied into the /dev directory in the radio whose IP address is
10.42.42.4.

Not where I can try this right now.

Thank you so much.

~DK


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[Kriivari]

simlu wrote:
>
> I decided to downgrade the firmware to baby 7.7.2 (r9663), thanks to
> some useful posts I found on this forum. So far, I've encountered no
> issues at all. Here's the information of my UE:
>

Thank you so very much! I had the same issues as almost everybody else
with my UE, and your instructions worked perfectly. I too am now a happy
owner of a Squeezebox that looks suprisingly like a UE on the outside.


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[toby10]

Kriivari wrote:
> ..... I too am now a happy owner of a Squeezebox that looks suprisingly
> like a UE on the outside.

UE Radio is essentially a SB Radio with different firmware. SB Radio
has years of development behind it. UE is basically starting over
again, software wise.


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[pssc]

toby10 wrote:
> UE Radio is essentially a SB Radio with different firmware. SB Radio
> has years of development behind it. UE is basically starting over
> again, software wise.

Id say having poured over the code there is probably less then 5%
difference between the two. Excluding some new Applets for the UE for
remove Music browsing most of the changes are portable back to the 7.8
series


Phill.


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[Sakkerju]

pssc wrote:
> Id say having poured over the code there is probably less then 5%
> difference between the two. Excluding some new Applets for the UE for
> remove Music browsing most of the changes are portable back to the 7.8
> series
>
>
> Phill.

At a functional perspective it is a new productline IMHO.
The fact that code is basically leached, makes it even worse...For me,
this is a typical suicide product by Logitech.


PS: Now I still can, a happy new year to the Logitech product
marketeers!


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[xsqueezeme]

simlu wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> First of all I'd like to share with you my disappointment with the UE
> Smart Radio. Shame on me I didn't read enough before buying. I was sure
> this little music box would be better than it's predecessor but it's
> quite the opposite. A lot of cool features have been removed and the one
> I wanted the most with the UE Smart Radio wasn't there: playing music
> locally using my Synology NAS.
>
> I decided to downgrade the firmware to baby 7.7.2 (r9663), thanks to
> some useful posts I found on this forum. So far, I've encountered no
> issues at all. Here's the information of my UE:
>

simlu - I owe you a cold one! This is awesome! Kudos, mad props, etc
for taking the time and effort to figure it out. I think I'm pretty
smart sometimes then I find posts like this and I know that I'm not
worthy!

A bit of background. I too have been building up my "poor-man's sonos"
with SBR's around the house. My most recent one purchased started
failing to hold it's wifi connection while all the others in the house
could. After much troubleshooting, I called it in for an RMA. They
told me they'd send me a white one, as that's all they had in stock.
Wasn't my choice of replacement for a black one, but "ok fine send it."
Next tech support email was "sorry - all out - how about a UE Smart
Radio instead." Being that was my only option, what could I say. The
plan was to sell it on ebay and find another SBR instead, which are
going up in price if you haven't noticed. Wasn't looking fwd to that,
but I was invested already and couldn't back out now. Then I came
across this post and now I have an SBR in UESR clothing! That was so
easy to do over a cup of coffee.

<rant>
When I had to first connect the UESR to my wifi, I had to roll through
my crazy long wifi encryption pswd?! Uhm, why no push button (PBC)
method? Is that seriously supposed to be another enhancement to make it
easier for users? After I did the "downgrade" and reset, the PBC option
was right there and - click click connected. What are they thinking
over there? Would it have been too hard to support the old firmware?
Maybe offer a novice and geek mode. Or at least allow users the chance
to choose the firmware they want, even if the old version is labeled as
unsupported on the UESR. And wasn't there someone on the beginning of
the thread who was told by tech support that it was impossible due to
new hardware?! What a boatload of crap they're serving. What's the new
hardware? The black preset buttons?! Ironically, that's the only real
thing of value in the new radio, IMO.
</rant>

So people - have no fear - your SBR is still here!

Thanks again to simlu! :-)


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[Owen Smith]

Actually I hope UE Smart Radio does survive, because while it is a
current product MySB and all the infrastructure to support it will
continue. Once Logitech have no current product that uses any of MySB,
then we have to worry about how long MySB lasts.

My personal interest in MySB is only for factory reset of my three
Receivers, I otherwise don't use MySB. I guess I'd be able to survive
with Net-UDAP but it's a pretty hideous experience trying to use it.
However I appreciate that lots of others use MySB for all sorts of
things.


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[Mnyb]

Owen Smith wrote:
> Actually I hope UE Smart Radio does survive, because while it is a
> current product MySB and all the infrastructure to support it will
> continue. Once Logitech have no current product that uses any of MySB,
> then we have to worry about how long MySB lasts.
>
> My personal interest in MySB is only for factory reset of my three
> Receivers, I otherwise don't use MySB. I guess I'd be able to survive
> with Net-UDAP but it's a pretty hideous experience trying to use it.
> However I appreciate that lots of others use MySB for all sorts of
> things.

The usual hold left arrow trick does not work taking you out of the
setup mysb.com account routine on the controller ?
And you don't have to factoryr reset the controller ?

Must be similar to radio and Touch where people managed to dodge
mysb.com during setup , now my duet is in a box I haven't done this
recently .


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[bluegaspode]

Jonvw wrote:
> Using the instructions in the other thread, I was able to downgrade a UE
> Smart Radio purchased in a store to a SB Radio. Easy peasy, no hiccups.

cool! Thanks for reporting back.


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[pippin]

That's indeed really good to know :)


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[pssc]

Jonvw wrote:
> Using the instructions in the other thread, I was able to downgrade a UE
> Smart Radio purchased in a store to a SB Radio. Easy peasy, no hiccups.

Does your light sensor work? Looking at the source code that part seems
to have changed, ie screen dimming and lighting etc...

Phill.


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[Jonvw]

pssc wrote:
> Does your light sensor work? Looking at the source code that part seems
> to have changed, ie screen dimming and lighting etc...
>
> Phill.

It works, in that it brightens when the room gets lighter. It does seem
a little bit choppy, in that the brightness doesn't fade in and out but
jumps to the appropriate level. I never noticed how it worked before,
though.


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[frussqueeze]

pssc wrote:
> So are you going to ebay, hack or return? Logitech tech support have
> little or no idea about what’s really going on the platform.
>
> Is the UE Radio running the name kernel as the SB Radio?
>
> Phill.

I'm undecided Phill, I might give it to a relative since I have no use
for it as it is.

I don't know much about kernels, how will I check that? I will do
erland's uname -a thing in a moment if that's what you're asking.


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[bjevers]

frussqueeze wrote:
> ...plus my home server is on a NAS and tech support said there is no NAS
> support neither.

There is no official NAS support, but I've been running UE Music Library
on my ReadyNAS for a couple months now. Nightly builds for it (and
other builds) are available here:
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/index.php?ver=10.0


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[pippin]

I don't think there will be dramatic differences between the hardware.
One thing you should be aware of, though (and which I just learned) is
that Logitech seems to have started selling a 2nd revision of the Radio
sometimes this year. For this revision, only firmware versions for LMS
7.7.1 and newer are available, I'd guess this is likely also what's in
the UE Radio


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[frussqueeze]

pippin wrote:
> I don't think there will be dramatic differences between the hardware.
> One thing you should be aware of, though (and which I just learned) is
> that Logitech seems to have started selling a 2nd revision of the Radio
> sometimes this year. For this revision, only firmware versions for LMS
> 7.7.1 and newer are available, I'd guess this is likely also what's in
> the UE Radio

Thanks pippin, I'm really hoping to find a workable solution for this.

Btw, I wanted to contact you, I read your post yesterday about beta
testers of iPeng in UE Radio, if you need something I can do it.


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[rich.herbs]

pippin wrote:
> I don't think there will be dramatic differences between the hardware.
> One thing you should be aware of, though (and which I just learned) is
> that Logitech seems to have started selling a 2nd revision of the Radio
> sometimes this year. For this revision, only firmware versions for LMS
> 7.7.1 and newer are available, I'd guess this is likely also what's in
> the UE Radio

pippin, can you point me to more information about this Radio revision?
I'm having trouble loading firmware 7.5.1 on my new Radio, but if I can
verify via the serial number or some other information that I have one
of the "2nd revision" of the Radio that refer to, then I will give up my
attempts.


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[pippin]

Not really. I just remembered that earlier this year "baby2" firmware
strings started to show up in the firmware repos.

And recently a friend of mine tried to do the same thing as you:
installing a 7.5.x firmware on a newly purchased Radio.
It failed with obscure errors and he SSH'ed into the device and had a
look at the logs and there was a message about an incompatible firmware
revision.
I think his Radio came with a 7.7.1 firmware pre installed so it looks
you can't go back to pre-7.7.1 firmware revisions. There simply is no
compatible firmware for older server versions.

The crashes being caused are probably because there is no mechanism to
distinguish the devices (both are called baby) so your server will try
to install the old version even though it's not compatible.


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[Mnyb]

pippin wrote:
> Not really. I just remembered that earlier this year "baby2" firmware
> strings started to show up in the firmware repos.
>
> And recently a friend of mine tried to do the same thing as you:
> installing a 7.5.x firmware on a newly purchased Radio.
> It failed with obscure errors and he SSH'ed into the device and had a
> look at the logs and there was a message about an incompatible firmware
> revision.
> I think his Radio came with a 7.7.1 firmware pre installed so it looks
> you can't go back to pre-7.7.1 firmware revisions. There simply is no
> compatible firmware for older server versions.
>
> The crashes being caused are probably because there is no mechanism to
> distinguish the devices (both are called baby) so your server will try
> to install the old version even though it's not compatible.

This is very interesting ,there where also a chap that reported that his
new Radio sounded different ?

Speculation baby2=UE Radio , the last hw revision of the old radio may
possibly be the first version of UE ?


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[erland]

pippin wrote:
> Not really. I just remembered that earlier this year "baby2" firmware
> strings started to show up in the firmware repos.
>
> And recently a friend of mine tried to do the same thing as you:
> installing a 7.5.x firmware on a newly purchased Radio.
> It failed with obscure errors and he SSH'ed into the device and had a
> look at the logs and there was a message about an incompatible firmware
> revision.
> I think his Radio came with a 7.7.1 firmware pre installed so it looks
> you can't go back to pre-7.7.1 firmware revisions. There simply is no
> compatible firmware for older server versions.
>
> The crashes being caused are probably because there is no mechanism to
> distinguish the devices (both are called baby) so your server will try
> to install the old version even though it's not compatible.
>
From firmware svn logs:

Code:
--------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------
r9597 | fmueller | 2012-02-02 20:36:51 +0100 (Tor, 02 Feb 2012) | 4 lines

Bug: n/a
Description: Support for LiteOn light sensor
- LiteOn light sensor support starting with board revision 7

------------------------------------------------------------------------
r9596 | fmueller | 2012-02-02 20:31:35 +0100 (Tor, 02 Feb 2012) | 5 lines

Bug: n/a
Description: Support for LiteOn light sensor
- Copy existing MSP430 firmware file for board revision 7
- Allow firmware to run on board revision 7

------------------------------------------------------------------------
r9595 | fmueller | 2012-02-02 20:25:31 +0100 (Tor, 02 Feb 2012) | 4 lines

Bug: n/a
Description: Support for LiteOn light sensor
- New redboot bootloader to increase board revision to 7

--------------------


Feels like this could be related.
In that case it means that you need 7.7.2 or later firmware if you like
to "downgrade" a UE Smart Radio to a Squeezebox.

The command
Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/cpuinfo
--------------------
on my Radios's lists two rows at the end of the output saying:

Code:
--------------------

Hardware : Logitech MX25 Baby Board
Revision : 0005

--------------------


If anyone have a UE Smart Radio is willing to try to run cat
/proc/cpuinfo and see what Revision it reports we can confirm it.
If it says 7, that's probably a fairly strong indication that the above
mentioned firmware changes is needed to make the firmware work properly,
which means you need 7.7.2 or later firmware.


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[Mnyb]

Another data piont .

Hardware : Logitech MX25 Baby Board
Revision : 0004

# cat /proc/modules
ar6000 142748 0 - Live 0xbf000000

This my slightly old radio running Squeezebox fw. Older hw ,the diff in
modules may have another explanation it's maybe diffrent running UE .
This the differences compared to Erlands nwer radio


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[frussqueeze]

erland wrote:
>
> The command >
Code:
--------------------
> > cat /proc/cpuinfo
--------------------
> > on my Radios's lists two rows at the end of the output saying:
> >
Code:
--------------------
> >
> Hardware : Logitech MX25 Baby Board
> Revision : 0005
>
--------------------
> >
>
> If anyone have a UE Smart Radio is willing to try to run cat
> /proc/cpuinfo and see what Revision it reports we can confirm it.
> If it says 7, that's probably a fairly strong indication that the
> above mentioned firmware changes is needed to make the firmware work
> properly, which means you need 7.7.2 or later firmware.


On my UE Smart Radio the command

Code:
--------------------
cat /proc/cpuinfo
--------------------

outputs this:

Code:
--------------------

Processor : ARM926EJ-S rev 4 (v5l)
BogoMIPS : 359.62
Features : swp half thumb fastmult edsp java
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 5TEJ
CPU variant : 0x0
CPU part : 0x926
CPU revision : 4
Cache type : write-back
Cache clean : cp15 c7 ops
Cache lockdown : format C
Cache format : Harvard
I size : 16384
I assoc : 4
I line length : 32
I sets : 128
D size : 16384
D assoc : 4
D line length : 32
D sets : 128

Hardware : Logitech MX25 Baby Board
Revision : 0007
Serial : <<removed>>
UUID : <<removed>>

--------------------


So as far as I understand, downgrading will actually work. That is GREAT
news indeed!


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[pippin]

Well, there were definitely variations even before. I do have two radios
(both older) that have completely different display lighting.
The newer one (of these two) REALLY sucks at this.


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[Michael Herger]

> Well, there were definitely variations even before. I do have two radios
> (both older) that have completely different display lighting.
> The newer one (of these two) REALLY sucks at this.

AFAIK the light sensor did change in some hardware revision, indeed.

--

Michael

[pippin]

Well, I can definitely tell you about people who tried it (with a
Squeezebox Radio) and it didn't work. The problem is that the radio
pulls the update but then crashes on install so you've got a semi-brick
and need to do a firmware reset.

Logitech needs to communicate that, IMHO, it must give them a lot of
sent-back devices of users who don't know what's going on and use an old
server.

It's a big mistake to not change the model name because this way the new
devices will just automatically download and install an incompatible
firmware if you just connect them to an old server. And nothing tells
you that this would cause trouble,

Kind of an auto-brick feature.


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[maggior]

Thanks pippin.

I'm finding that it won't "auto brick" when you try to connect it to an
older server, it just immediately fails with no details as to why.

If I find that it is the new hardware, I won't waste my time trying to
manually downgrade to the older firmware - I don't need to deal with
unbricking my radio. I will consider upgrading to LMS for my main
server. Other than that, Amazon is really great with returns :-).

This a nice parting blow to us squeezebox users! Unbelievable...you
can't even make this stuff up.


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[pippin]

Well, I think they just didn't think about it when bringing in the new
hardware revision. Remember,mist always been a Slimdevices (even before
Logitech times) philosophy that you should always use the latest server
version with your device and match up firmware and server.

I've been trying to tell them for years that its eventually going to
hurt if your devices are not compatible to different server versions on
the protocol level. Would eventually have become a real issue with the
App hadn't they discontinued the platform, it's unbelievable how much
code I have in iPeng just to cope with different server versions.

Now all of that paid off nicely when doing iPeng UE, because UE works
fine with my legacy code where it did not with the one for the current
generation of LMS :)


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[maggior]

pippin wrote:
> Well, I think they just didn't think about it when bringing in the new
> hardware revision. Remember,mist always been a Slimdevices (even before
> Logitech times) philosophy that you should always use the latest server
> version with your device and match up firmware and server.
>

I thought that was the reason for the automatic fw upgrades/downgrades
based on the server version - you were guaranteed to be running FW
compatable with the server software. There, all they had to do was make
sure that the interfaces required for upgrading/downgrading fw were
front and backward compatable. I can see how it would be a nightmare
and restrictive if you had to maintain full backward compatability to
run any FW with any server.

I'm realistic and don't expect the new radio FW to work with an old
version of the server. What I do expect to work is the ability to
automatically load the appropriate FW version for the server version I'm
running. I've never encountered an issue with this until now.


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[maggior]

pippin wrote:
> Oh, then try to run a, say, Touch or Radio, with SqueezeCenter 7.3. Same
> thing, they don't work because there _is_ no working firmware for these
> devices and this server version.
> The one thing that's worse here is that you can't really distinguish the
> devices and nobody tells you and that not even the server knows that
> there's an incompatible player connecting.

That I know - I certainly don't expect hardware that didn't exist when
particular versions of server software were made to work. When new
hardware would come out, you would have to upgrade to the new version of
server software. The Radio has been around for years - certainly before
7.5.5 was released.

I see where you are coming from - as an app you didn't have the luxury
of saying "my app only works with current/latest versions of squeezebox
server".


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[pippin]

maggior wrote:
> I thought that was the reason for the automatic fw upgrades/downgrades
> based on the server version - you were guaranteed to be running FW
> compatable with the server software. There, all they had to do was make
> sure that the interfaces required for upgrading/downgrading fw were
> front and backward compatable. I can see how it would be a nightmare
> and restrictive if you had to maintain full backward compatability to
> run any FW with any server.
>
Actually: no. It's what everybody else does. You would have to have
something like an idea of what's going on over your interface and
probably write something like a specification, though.
>
> I'm realistic and don't expect the new radio FW to work with an old
> version of the server. What I do expect to work is the ability to
> automatically load the appropriate FW version for the server version I'm
> running. I've never encountered an issue with this until now.
Oh, then try to run a, say, Touch or Radio, with SqueezeCenter 7.3. Same
thing, they don't work because there _is_ no working firmware for these
devices and this server version.
The one thing that's worse here is that you can't really distinguish the
devices and nobody tells you and that not even the server knows that
there's an incompatible player connecting.


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[Mnyb]

I speculate that the last production run of Radio realy is the UE
hardware , they just did not care the match the transition .

Given that Logitech does not care for user with a local server anymoore
and mysqueezebox.com is always up to date .

I think someone took a shortcut and hoped a small run of " not really
radios " would just pass by unseen :)


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[pippin]

Yes. But also: this is what you've got here, too: it's a new hardware
that only works with the server version available when it came to, it's
just that you can't immediately see that it's a new hardware.


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[maggior]

pippin wrote:
> Yes. But also: this is what you've got here, too: it's a new hardware
> that only works with the server version available when it came to, it's
> just that you can't immediately see that it's a new hardware.

That is truely evil if that is what is really going on! Ugh!!

I'm starting to regret buying this Radio :-).


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[pippin]

Two things: I have seen worse server versions than 7.7.2, if you want
all the bugs out, try 7.3 beta or 7.8 beta (this may have other bugs but
I'm quite happy with it myself). The important part is to turn off the
scanning for images and videos (no, this has nothing to do with album
artwork) if you want it reliable.

And then (although this is really nitpicking): the 7.7.x firmware will
probably also work with a 7.6 server, just not with 7.5 or older.


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[pippin]

Actually, Apple _is_ doing things like that. Maybe not exactly the same
thing, but with similar effects.


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[maggior]

Setting my feelings toward logitech aside, I wanted to thank those that
helped me figure out the situation with my squeezebox Radio. Thanks to
you guys, I have it working and am comfortable that I understand the
situation with it and know what it is compatable with.

One thing that has remained constant throughout the entire squeezebox
product life - the community here is amazingly helpful and a pleasure to
be a part of.


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[pippin]

I would not say that.
A lot of bugs due to the hasty development aside it has pretty much the
same functionality the SB Radio has with MySB plus some local playback
attached.

If you look at it from the MySB perspective (it is now really driven
from the online server) there's not a lot that has changed, MySB never
supported playlists and stuff.


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[HeadBanger]

pippin wrote:
> I would not say that.
> A lot of bugs due to the hasty development aside it has pretty much the
> same functionality the SB Radio has with MySB plus some local playback
> attached.
>
> If you look at it from the MySB perspective (it is now really driven
> from the online server) there's not a lot that has changed, MySB never
> supported playlists and stuff.

No third party app support. No local server software. Must have an
Internet connection to work. No synchronisation with Squeezeboxes
instantly alienating a huge potential customer base. How can you say not
a lot has changed? I'm not sure if you're saying this tongue in cheek or
not! It's been over two years since a new Squeezebox was released so
they've had ample time to develop something good - something worthy of
succeeding a Squeezebox.

Is there someone at Logitech that will put their hand up and say sorry,
we got it wrong? I doubt it and unfortunately, I tend to agree that
MySB.com will outlive UE.


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[pippin]

Please read my post again. It was more like a technical description. I
indeed forgot the capability to sync with other Squeezeboxes, but apart
from that, none of what you mention is available without the local
server. The other conscious (and clearly dumb, IMHO) decision they were
making was to not allow support for 3rd party plugins (controller Apps
_can_ be supported as you can see from iPeng UE)

You have to see where they were coming from (and again: I'm not saying
that a lot of what they actually implemented was a good idea, except for
the very _idea_ of doing away with server switching, that was a wise
one, which doesn't help if the implementation isn't good!)

You say they had two years, but that's not the case. From what you hear,
they had actually planned to shut down the product completely and only
re-started development sometimes during last year, a few months before
the actual UE launch. And they had already dismantled a lot of the team
as you will probably have noticed on this very forum.

Their idea for the restart was to simplify things, focus on online
streaming media and do away with server switching. The result was that
they tied the product to MySqueezebox.com and that's the functionality
you see today. It's very similar to the functionality a Squeezebox has
with MySqueezebox.com, that was my comment. There are almost no changes
to the product itself if you look at it from that perspective. The menus
look the same, work the same, the supported services are the same and
work the same. OK, some things like alarms and scrobbling got broken, I
have no idea how that could happen and someone forgot that the web
interface on MySB might eventually get used. Hey, EVERYBODY has an
iPhone or an Android, right?

They _also_ added a capability, based on LMS, to play music from your
own computer. That must not be confused with the capabilities the
Squeezeboxes had through LMS because it's clearly isn't the same thing.
The main reason for this is that - since the UE Radio runs with
uesmartradio.com, not the local server - the capability had to be newly
developed on the online service side. It's one of the two things they
really developed (the other one being the new Apps).

So again: technically, this is a Squeezebox running on MySB with some
added capability to play files and albums (but not playlists) from
iTunes or your files. This is _not_ a Squeezebox running with LMS.


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[HeadBanger]

I didn't realise that Logitech were planning to discontinue the
Squeezebox range entirely but yes, I had noticed Logitech posters
disappearing. In my naivety I had assumed that they had no time to post
as they were so busy developing the next Squeezebox!

Kind of makes it even more laughable though doesn't it?

Let's kill Squeezebox.
Lay the staff off / move to different division. Done.
Hang on, shall we release a simpler Radio under the UE banner?
Yes, let's do that.
But most of our staff are now gone how are we to resource this?
Don't worry, we'll use the existing LMS software and strip out some
features to make it much simpler.
What about integration with existing Squeezeboxes?
No point - we want new customers.
But aren't they are potential buyers of UE stuff?
They'll come round and ditch their Squeezeboxes.
So we are releasing a Touch UE as well then?
Er, no.
Are we to provide a local music server?
What? No, that's old hat. Internet only is the way forward.
What about people with no internet or locations that make it very
unreliable?
Er, well there can't be that many of them - move on.
Third party apps?
No, too much hassle to let someone else write a decent add on for us.
So, it's just to be a standalone internet radio for the same price as
the old Squeezebox Radio?
Yes.
OK we're on it - sounds like a winner.


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[Michael Herger]

> No, too much hassle to let someone else write a decent add on for us.
> So, it's just to be a standalone internet radio for the same price as
> the old Squeezebox Radio?
> Yes.
> OK we're on it - sounds like a winner.

...except that the UESR cost almost twice the street price of a SBR over
here in Switzerland...

--

Michael

[pippin]

No PBC on SBR either.


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[Owen Smith]

pippin wrote:
> No PBC on SBR either.

What is PBC?


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[xsqueezeme]

pippin wrote:
> No PBC on SBR either.

I promise there is. PBC, WPS - whatever it's called these days - it's
an option for me on the SBR.

(Check out the image below. I found it online so no need to upload a
pic)

http://www.logitech.com/repository/3527/jpg/28177.1.0.jpg

Possibly it needs to handshake w/the router first to enable that
functionality? WNDR3700 is what I have.


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[pippin]

3 posts up


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[Owen Smith]

pippin wrote:
> 3 posts up

Ah the wifi thing. Got it.

My confusion was that to me PBC mean PlayBack Control but that's a Video
CD thing and I couldn't see the relevance of that to Squeezeboxes.

The world is running out of acronyms, most have more than 2 uses (never
mind one!).


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[pippin]

I thought it's called WPS :) just wanted to use the OP's nomenclature
and didn't see your post before writing mine.


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[Percival Sweetwater]

pippin wrote:
> I thought it's called WPS :) just wanted to use the OP's nomenclature
> and didn't see your post before writing mine.

What's an OP?


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[Mnyb]

Percival Sweetwater wrote:
> What's an OP?

Original Poster aka TS Tread Starter in some forums .


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[garym]

Percival Sweetwater wrote:
> What's an OP?

Original Poster (person starting the thread)


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[pippin]

Wow. Never saw that. Interesting.


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